What if Mecca were destroyed? Answer to max’s question.

February 20, 2006 at 7:43 pm (Uncategorized)

Mecca, in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, is holy by itself and holy because of the Grand Mosque therein. The Grand Mosque is holy because within it is the Ka’bah (literally, “cube”). It is the Ka’bah which is the qiblah (direction of prayer) for Muslims, and which is called the House of God (baytullaah). In Arabic, the Grand Mosque is often called al-masjid al-Haraam, the Haraam Mosque. Most of the time, “Haraam,” an adjective, means “forbidden.” In this case it means “sacred” or “restricted.” It is forbidden to non-Muslims, and violence in its vicinity is forbidden. When “Haraam” is in the dual (“Haramaan” or “Haramayn”), it refers to the Grand Mosque of Mecca and the Prophet’s Mosque in Madinah. A title of the King of Saudi Arabia is khaadim al-Haramayn ash-shareefayn, which may be translated as “the Custodian of the Two Holy Sanctuaries” but which also means “the Custodian of the Two Noble Restricted Areas.” The Prophet’s Mosque in Madinah is also off limits to non-Muslims.

Great importance and sanctity is attached to the Ka’bah. It has been rebuilt a number of times, the last time being in 1996 by the House of Saud.

In this thread of the Ace of Spades Headquarters, max asked what would happen if Mecca were destroyed, either by anti-Saudi Muslims or Western powers. The answer depends on a few factors. One thing that would not vary would be that various buildings in Mecca (the Ka’ba, the Grand Mosque, the Zamzam well, Maqaam al-Ibraheem, etc.) would be immediately rebuilt. The Sauds would spare no expense in doing so, in rebuilding them swiftly and rebuilding them extravagantly. Donations from around the world would flow in.

If Mecca were destroyed by Muslims, the reaction would be relatively subdued. Undoubtedly, Saudi forces would enlist the assistance of the armed forces of other Muslim states (and, perhaps, quietly ask for assistance from Western powers) and would annihilate any remnant of the involved Muslim group. There might be protests around the Muslim world against the involved Muslim group. Such an event not be entirely unprecedented, to a degree. In 1979, Juhayman, a Saudi, and his followers took the Mosque hostage. Juhayman was a descendent of a member of the old Ikhwaan (literally, “Brothers”), Wahhabi tribal militants who assisted the House of Saud seize power. They were disbanded when they began striking against the House of Saud, accusing the House of Saud of corruption and abandoning Islam. This takeover of the Mosque stunned the world and, more importantly, the House of Saud. It took them time to respond (such a violation of the Ka’bah is literally inconceivably by Muslims, which is why most have forgotten it by now), then it took them time to mobilize for action. After getting the necessary permissions from religious leaders, and assembling the necessary forces, the hostage-takers were dislodged. The males were beheaded.

What is interesting is that many Muslims would have been sympathetic to Juhayman’s claims and demands. The very same claims and demands were being made by Grand Ayatollah Ruhollah Musavi Khomeyni in Iran. However, by seizing the Mosque (which broke two very important rules: no violence in Mecca, and no endangering the Grand Mosque or the Ka’bah), they lost all support from the Muslim world.

Back to max’s question. If Mecca were destroyed by Muslims but the Muslim world were to be convinced it was actually done by Western powers, Muslims would launch World War III (or World War IV if World War III is going on right now). Even Muslim states that did not want to fight may not be able to control their people.

If Western powers directly destroyed Mecca, Muslims would launch World War III (or World War IV if World War III is going on right now).

In either case, if the West were believed to be involved (in this case, reality is irrelevant: perception matters), there would be a massive reaction against the West by Muslims throughout the world. It would be a cataclysmic war of civilizations. No matter which Western powers were involved or were to be perceived to be involved, all Western powers would come under attack. The West would win, of course, but only after an immense amount of violence.

To what extent Muslim states would become officially involved would have to be seen. Many might become involved despite whatever the government may want: it might become an issue of getting involved to avoid a popular revolt. If the governments are involved at their highest level, the use of unconventional weaponry should not be ruled out, with or without a warning. (Pakistan and Iran would be of major concern here. If North Korea joined on the Muslims’ side, it would add to the concern the US as well as the Asian powerhouses (China, Japan, South Korea).)

Their response would make these riots on Muhammad cartoons look like hopscotch.

Of course, this will never happen. Westerners are too smart.

Now, if a Christian were to enter Mecca and leave a cross/crucifix/Bible – ah, that’s an interesting issue. (We’d do it, except We might be killed. Even if We were not, many thousands of innocent Christians and Westerners might be in the raging flames of the Muslims’ reaction.)

inna naHnu-l-a’lamoon.

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28 Comments

  1. sandy burger said,

    Wasn’t the black rock broken into several pieces at some point in the past, or am I just misremembering?

  2. Muslihoon said,

    Yes, it was! I’m impressed someone remembers. Not even Muslims know it (and even if they do, they don’t know when it happened or how).

    In the 10th century CE, a radical Ismaili sect, the Qaramatians, who established a state in what is now Bahrain, attacked Mecca and its Mosque, slaughtering pilgrims, and taking away the Black Stone (al-Hajar al-aswad). Despite the strong condemnation and pleas of the Fatimid caliph-imam (who belonged to another Ismaili sect) and the offer of a large ransom by another Muslim ruler, the Qaramatians refused to return the Black Stone. Finally, however, they did after keeping it for about 22 years. It was returned broken.

    There is a difference in opinion on the significance of the Black Stone in Islam. Muhammad kissed it and evidently honored it. Umar ibn Khattab (who would become the third caliph) didn’t find it to be so honorable. When he kissed he, he said he did so only because Muhammad did. Even today, some believe it’s just a stone. (Placed in the southeast corner of the Ka’bah, rukn al-Hajar al-aswad, it marks the beginning and end of one’s circumambulation around the Ka’ba.) Others believe it to have supernatural power or significance.

  3. adolfo velasquez said,

    Wow, lots of good information. I wonder if any Christians or non-Muslims have been able to sneak in to see it in recent years.

  4. Muslihoon said,

    Thank you, adolfo!

    A few non-Muslims have snuck into Mecca. I doubt this is very possible now. (One needs a visa from the Saudi embassy in order to go to Saudi Arabia, and the embassy makes sure people going to Mecca or Madinah are Muslims.)

    At this link (albeit biased), one may find out about a number of non-Muslims who visited and wrote about Mecca. The most famous, of course, was Sir Richard Francis Burton. There was a website that listed non-Muslims who visited Mecca with links to the text of their travelogue. I can’t find it right now, but will post it once I do.

  5. RASHID MAJID said,

    LOL THIS IS DUM TO THINK WESTERNERS WOULD OVERCOME MUSLIMS AFTER THE KABBAH WAS ATTACKED BY WESTERNERS, LOL GOOD LUCK IN CONTROLING AND DEFEATING 1.8 BILLION PEOPLE TO THINK U CAN BEAT MUSLIMS LIKE THAT WHEN THEY ARE ENRAGED AND THEIR LEADERS CANT CONTROL THEM IS STUPID, U CANT EVEN CONTROL TERRORISTS IN IRAQ, NOT MUSLIMS BUT A MINORITY OF THE POPULATION THE SO CALLED TERRORISTS, SO IF EVERY MUSLIM WAS TO BECOME A SO CALLED TERORISTS THATS 1.8 BILLION TERRORISTS U THINK U CAN STILL CONTROL ALL THOSE PEOPLE LOL YOU ARE MORE STUPID THAN I THOUGHT.

    • 57states said,

      nuke them! nuke mecca! mecca will be nuked if the USA is nuked first you can count on it! so lets all live in peace god bless you and and praise allah

    • Exterminator said,

      You people are scum, a scourge, a threat to our future! I always said that Adolf Hitler didn’t sought out the right targets for the final solution.. He should have exterminated muslims instead of Jews! I hope Ahmadinedjad gets his Nuke, and fuck Israel over, that way, WW3 would be declared on the parasitic animals that you are, and clean the world from your presence in Nuclear Fire. You people say that we should be tolerant with you, and yet you are the most intolerant people around. You should all DIE for us to be finally at peace!
      Zieg Heil

  6. Ahmed said,

    Absolutely right Rashid… Americans think they are really strong and powerful after they attacked Afghanistan and Iran where there was already a civil war going on and also they never had any kind of weapon except a Klashinkov and a couple of hand made bombs. All americans did was to give weapons to the other opposing group and bomb with planes… this guy is real funny talking about westerners taking over muslims. lol

    • 57states said,

      America beat saddam in 3 weeks HE HAD THE WORLDS 3RD MOST POWERFUL ARMY, if the terrorist weren’t hiding behind woman and children all the time we would be done, if the good muslims have not let ISLAM be hijacked from these cowards radicals we would not have to be over there! Lets not forget Israel whooped 5 arab country’s at the same time! why? because they did not care about the press! world opinion! that’s how we must fight! the liberals in my country have pushe this politicaly correct thing too far I fought over there in dessert storm and from 2003 to 2007 it is a complex battlefield with civilians all over the place, these terrorist dont have uniforms, they dont care how many innocent woman and children they kill as long as they kill one american in the mix, most of the time they just strap a bomb and will blow up a city of good muslims for the hell of it! The Muslim people got to grow some balls and take their good religion back! i have met lots of good muslims over in Kuwait and Iraq! I have played soccer with the kids, I would give them all my candy and twinkies, we helped build hospitals and schools and desalination plants, we showed them how to start crops in desserts, how to start medical centers, soccer fields, supplied the balls, knee pads and helmets, we send over 300 bikes for the kids, we set up a movie theatre compliments of disney, i miss alot of my friends over there, it’s too bad these terrorist wont let them start their own country back up without the brutal genocidal maniac saddam! saddam was putting people in wood chippers alive! I know we destroyed the wood chipper.

    • bhaskar said,

      Well Americans has the nuclear power since second world war. They can nuke the entire world at one go like no other prophet or god has done. THEY ARE MORE POWERFUL THAN U THINK OFF OR RATHER ANY BOOK OF DISCOURSE (RELIGION) .All this was possible because of scientific advancement compared to that people who lived in middle ages (when current religions like islam and xtianity was born). It is for this nuke itself Iran is CRAVING HARD AND PAKISTAN sits like a duck and embrace the scientific instrument rather than cling on to Quran or Allah … like most muslims think off or have faith in.

  7. Anonymous said,

    Yeah especially since the Western Countries compromise about 3 billion people, and so far all wars have been fought with concern of civilian life, if they all became terrorists there would be no need to precision bomb they could just blanket entire cities.

  8. Jimmy said,

    Yeah hilarious ahmed. Since all the wars fought by western powers in the middle east have been fought with regard to civilian life. If they became terrorists it would be a hell of alot easier to blanket entire cities. and don’t forget that Western powers have all the big guns and more people.

  9. Shadow said,

    What would happen if major religeous sites were destroyed for every religeon by an outsider (i.e. The Vatican, the Ka’bah, and Temple Mount?) and the other religeons were framed? (i.e. Christians blame Muslims, Muslims blame Hebrews, and Hebrews blame Christians)

  10. Christian said,

    If Mecca would be destroyed, muslims would understand that allah is a false god without any power and convert to Christianity or somethingg else.

  11. Christian said,

    If Vatican or other Holy CHristian would be destroyed that would not discourage Christians because their kingdom is not on earth

  12. Christian92 said,

    Mecca could or will be destroyed by the Anti-Christ in the end times WORLD WAR III, who knows, God will give them a second chance, all the world a second chance to come to his son, Jesus Christ! Many will be fooled with the Anti Christ and if you die out of Christ, thats unfortunate for you.

    For Christ to live and to die is to gain!!!

    AMEN!!! COME LORD JESUS!!!!

  13. mohammed said,

    Saudi Prince and NYSE firm involved in Mecca Scandal

    HRH Prince Faisal bin Mugrin bin Abdulaziz, son of Prince Mugrin head of internal security, Al Muttahed a leading Saudi development firm listed on the Saudi Stock Exchange and Northcourse owned by Wyndham a NYSE company have been involved with a property scandal in the holy city of Mecca(Makkah) Saudi Arabia.

    Le Meridien Hotel Towers Makkah offered a noble and spiritually rewarding product to Non Saudi’s however this blessed gift is nothing but a shameful con.

    The product was exclusively marketed globally by North Course based out of Dubai with ambitions of being the leading timeshare advisors, managers and operators in the entire Gulf region.

    In cahoots with Saudi firms, (Saudi Amjad/Al Muttahed (a Saudi StockCompany) & Al Fassel Global Services) Northcourse, the creators of this project have been perpetrating a holy sin, marketing and promising the blessed gift of owning property in Holy Makkah close to the prophets Mosque to Non Saudis knowing full well that what they were doing was illegal, immoral and plainly deceiving buyers.

    Le Meridien the hotel chain purported to be the timeshare resort managers through disclaimers denies any association with the project

    “It has come to the attention of Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide, Inc., (Starwood) that units at Le Meridien Towers Makkah hotel in Saudi Arabia are being offered for sale or rent as condominiums or timeshare by third parties. These timeshare units are not offered, licensed, sponsored or endorsed by Starwood, Le Meridien brand or any Starwood affiliates.

    Starwood and Le Meridien brand disclaim any relationship with such timeshare or condominium units.”

    Apartments have also been sold to non Muslims as North Course claimed the investment would reap huge financial rewards, with the developer (Saudi Amjad / Al Muttahed) being aware to what was going on and signing contracts and issuing title deeds.

    How can the Saudi Government condone this kind of scandal, this blasphemy in the Holy City? Northcourse, Almuttahed and Al Fassel Global Services need investigating and serious action taken against them, using the holy city for business purposes and cheating faithful out of money in this way is shameful.

    The Saudi, other Gulf authorities and Allah (peace be upon him) should punish the perpetrators of this evil crime. Muslim companies, communities, mosques and Governments around the world should boycott doing business with the companies mentioned above.

  14. yohanus said,

    Tell me when the westreners fought the muslims alone without either the help of muslim hepocrites or with the help of other countries. It never happen. the whole of nato and muslim hepocrites are fighting to get rid of bounch of tilibans with only ak 47 and could not do it for years upto now.

    If mecce were to be nuked by westener or jews “their masters”, it will not be the end of mecca, I will be end of the west and telabib.

    if we muslims would have wanted to finish of either the jews or christians, we have had a lot of appurtunity for that but we are not that czy.

  15. scream said,

    you know what would happen if mecca or god’s black box exploded or whatever? muslims would flip out. christians would flip out because the muslims flipped out. the israelis would flip out because the muslims flipped out. america, the UK, russia and china would flip out because it’s their job, and we’d all die. for no reason. there is no god. if I ever get a finger on the button, though, you’re all fucked

  16. TM said,

    Islam is a peacefull religion,it prechs peace,respect to others,tolerance and many other attrubutes.i have great respect for our holy places but i dont chanted or say bad word to other religion places cz islam do not allow us to destroy or damage other religion places too.in islam to hurt somone is a great sin,y muslim are being underestimated and blamed cz they are not truly acting on the islamic rules but our emphasis on more on debate and other stuff ,when we will b true inside ,no one can blame us and our religion.dont worry islam cant b vanish by non muslims(INSHALLAH)

  17. TM(PAKISTAN) said,

    MAY ‘ALLAH’ BLESS ALL OF US

  18. Anonymous said,

    Muslihoon: I am surprised that you did not mention the Hadeeth of Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him): The ones who transgress against the sanctity of Ka’abah are going to be its people (these people will be muslims because no enemy from outside can destroy Ka’abah. whenever there will be transgression against this holy place it will be from Muslims themselves) and when this will happen then don’s ask about the perishing of Arabs. Then the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) said: When this happens (Transgression against Ka’bah by Muslims) Abyssinia will come and destroy the Ka’bah and take out its treasures.

    If you read another hadith in Bukhari the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) exactly told the description of the person who will destroy the Ka’bah, He said: Ka’bah will be destroyed by Zul Suwaiqatain (The person with thin legs) from Abyssinia.

    The important point to understand is that it does not matter who will end up destroying the Ka’bah but WHY it will happen. It is very clear from the hadith that this will only happen when Muslims themselves start transgressing against the Ka’bah.

    So the questions asked here ( what would happen if Ka’bah was destroyed by WEST) is totally irrelevant.

    Peace,

  19. mojahed said,

    if thats happened i will make jehad with in the usa it self we are here and we will take as many as we could before we die and so on the blood shed will be heavey. we will attack the fatican the senigoges and every christean place possible

  20. nitroglycol said,

    This question interests me because I was thinking of making it a plot point in a novel. Specifically, what would be the effect on the various branches of the Islamic faith if Mecca were not merely destroyed, but made uninhabitable for decades by the use of a cobalt bomb? Because I could imagine Israel doing that. Under such circumstances, the Hajj would be impossible, for instance. Would this lead to permanent changes to the faith? After all, a generation or two would pass before reconstruction could occur; would the faithful drift in a different direction in the meantime?

  21. Jean-Francois said,

    Christian said:
    “If Mecca would be destroyed, muslims would understand that allah is a false god without any power and convert to Christianity or somethingg else.”

    There is an historical precedent to this. 2,000 years ago the ‘muslims’ of the roman empire were the Jews. They led 3 revolts againt the emperor, and the second one (Kitos War ) especially was a bloody one where many roman citizens were brutally killed in Cyrenaica. So they were considered as terrorists and religious fanatics by the Romans. In addition they refused to venerate the Roman Gods beside their own God. Shocking.
    Then when the last rebellion started, some Romans had a brilliant idea. The reasoning goes like this: The center of the jewish religion was Jerusalem, especially the temple, the holiest place where their God resides. So why not giving a lesson to those barbaric illiterate shepherds and show them that their God doesn’t protect even their holy temple? They did so and the campaign went marvelously, except one point. The Romans didn’t understand the nature of the human psychology.
    If you used to believe something all your life, and someone shows you that you are wrong, giving up would be like to admit that your life was a failure. Also people, and especially the poor people, need to clutch to a belief to support the hardship of life. Educated or rich people much less, but if you live in an unsecure area, that many of your friends are killed/robbed, that you have to suffer humiliations, famines, epidemies, it helps to think that something better is awaiting for you after your death, or in a remote future. Religions shape the human mind but the opposite is also true.
    So the Jews didn’t adopt the Gods of their (hated) conquerors, rather they turned to their religious leaders who had always a convenient explanation to provide. The Jerusalem temple was no longer essential. So when the Jews were captive in Egypt or Babylonia, when their God failed to provide them a great future, it wasn’t because their God was an invention, it was just a temporary situation but soon the messiah would come and deliver them. The messiah was less important when the Jews were back in Palestine, but after the third roman military expedition the idea was again changed, here the messiah would bring the Jews back to Palestine one day. Since the Jews were able to bring themselves there again without the help of any messiah the interpretation has changed again.
    So we have a striking example where the destruction of the heart of judaism hadn’t the desired effect
    What happens now if Mecca and Medina are nuked together? Of course it would mean a holy war, but the West can survive to this too. On the other hand after a few years the muslims would just go to Mecca and turn around the crater with a new belief, that one day the city will be rebuilt by Mohamad. Or either the most important sites would be immediatelly rebuilt.
    Some religious leader would conveniently find the black stone unscrached. Wow! Imagine, the black stone of the muslims that survives a nuclear explosion, that’s another miracle that shows how Allah is behind the muslims and their faith will be stronger than ever. Of course the black stone wouldn’t have the same shape and size than the first one, it could even turn to be slighly bigger, but if you behead the blasphemators who doubt, who cares? The bones of the prophet would even be uncovered, and even if nobody is allowed to see them, thousands of pilgrims would certify that they recovered from a disease when they got close to the burial site, and plenty could tell their children how Allah’s hand wrote a sentence in the sky when they were there. Now, since the religion needs to be changed in some way after such an event, you’d have different schools and interpretations regarding the nukes and the aftermath, some factions will start to fight each other with muslims killing other muslims.

  22. Jean-Francois said,

    We were all wrong, that’s a false problem. Mecca is already largelly destroyed – by the Saudis – and my guess is that the Ka’bah will be replaced by a McDonald or a casino by the royal family in the coming years. See this article:

    http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?36483-The-Saudis-relentless-drive-to-destroy-the-historic-sites-of-Islam

  23. replay said,

    how about your all fucking maniac christian go boom mecca use nuke or whatever weapon you got that you so pround of see what will happen and then we will see if you all can survive for 1 day or not you all who love world war 3 go fucking die first.!

  24. mailme said,

    Hu in the western country all infomation news media or internet be control by the goverment.they all read lies news that have been make for them (stupid people) not the true news (smart people) like we all read.Some of them that post stupid comment like make pizza mac donald bla bla anything not really know how stupid of them.

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